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Sam Charles Norton's avatar

Oh yes. And "my kingdom is not of this world" - perhaps what the end of the long 20th is presaging is a return of theology to the public space. Which will be weird, especially in England, as (for the most part) the official theologians (Bishops etc) are remarkably ill-equipped for the task, being mired as they are in the culture of the weak gods! To speak of the devil in such company is considered deeply impolite...

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Soulminkey's avatar

Theology is already here. But it is called Islam, not Christianity.

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Stuffysays's avatar

Islam has no theology, just a big stick to beat you into submission.

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mary-lou's avatar

very interesting! spirituality is a strongly personal trait, perhaps acquired through myths, traditions and a loving family. yet not easily attained in the fast-moving daily realities of the modern, industrialised world with its superficial wealth. the wealthier they are, the less inclined people are to thank the gods, so to speak. becoming further and further removed from nature too makes us less perceptive of our spiritual capabilities. governments should be there only for communal emergencies, politics (indeed) as a means to achieve a balance in the community's aspirations.

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Jonathan Sidaway's avatar

Seduction by metaphor can be gorgeous (e.g., reading Gunn's 'Lines to Some Ash', Hardy's 'The Voice' (can't abide sunniness)). But when it leads down some unnecessarily dark passages, why bother with the jaunt? The 'state' is entirely crafted by human action inc scalpel-wielding. 'Desire' is for things and situations inc a (very) small state. The bending of the material world to man's will and necessity can be statistically to his benefit rather than Satan's pleasure. As to the online right, am glad they are holding vibroscopes in their right hands rather than other things; but this 'vibe-change', puhleeze: around which equilibrium point are these new oscillations happening? The world has no centre beyond the necessary fiction of nationhood. 'Strong gods': not on yr nelly: the levantine import eventually met a falling market TBTG. 'Community': has anyone who chunters abt this ever considered the quantity of finger wagging and wiseacredom (to list the least) that communitarianism fosters? Am glad people find solace in 'spirituality' and wotnot - but I hope they remember that not everyone is 'looking for meaning', having it already in their unconsidered daily lives. Thanks 4 yr work again!

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David McGrogan's avatar

Thanks, Jonathan. Although I tend to be of the view that 'meaning' is going to come looking for everyone whether they think they have it on their daily lives or not...

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Jonathan Sidaway's avatar

Wittgenstein's 'handyman' or 'odd job man' in The Blue and Brown Books.

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Adam Collyer's avatar

Well said. Which gives me an excuse for this quote:

The key, the end, the answer

Stripped of their disguise

Still it’s all confusion

And tears spring to my eyes

Though I’ve reached a signpost

It's really not the end

Like Old Sol’ behind the mountain

I'll be coming up again…

I'm in motion

I am still

I am crying

I am still

I'm together

I'm apart

I'm forever

At the start

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Mars's avatar

I quite enjoyed this. A true conservative spirit to it; wisdom, prudence, knowledge of the old stories, and temperance.

In my spiritual tradition, there have been countless prophesies from holy men; the unfolding of end in its details is quite well known, and at it I do shudder.

One thing you said aligns with this: total control from top down and across the whole of the planet, even penetrating thought, this is the last end.

So praise God we are quite far from it!

the martyrs cry out, "how long?" but we the faithful, we bear one another's burdens. Our petition instead can be, in solidarity: "put off the closing of the age, Lord; spare us, for the sake of your little ones."

this is a holy prayer.

We live this prayer to the extent that we humble ourselves, purify our hearts in metanoia, and yes take the actions, political and otherwise, Divine Providence brings to our doorstep.

Yours, friend;

-mark basil

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Iain McCausland's avatar

Desire is one of the 3 root poisons of the human mind in Buddhist philosophy and can always be manipulated. In the debt based fiat money system under which we all live, the desire for more money is the government’s control lever.

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Adam's avatar

Another great piece. I am inclined toward the Aquinas perspective that "good can exist without evil, whereas evil cannot exist without good", which leads me, to think that the devil is not strong per se, but that the domain of good is much reduced allowing the increase in the territory of evil thus giving the perception of strength? How does this fit with your understanding?

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David McGrogan's avatar

I've never been entirely sure I agree with Aquinas. It's hard to look at the Holocaust or the Rwandan genocide (or the actions of a typical serial killer or sexual sadist) and not conclude that evil is real, strong, and not at all parasitic on the existence of good.

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Dan Shaw's avatar

Gaetano Mosca was right about the importance of alternative centres of power - religion, family, community, nation - in constraining the state. This is why government has gone knees to chest to undermine them, banishing the Strong Gods. If they can, and I share your circumspection, be brought back to any extent they will constrain the state. Your direct experience of Japan where, having lost the war they did not, as we, the winners did, banish the Strong Gods, may be instructive.

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David McGrogan's avatar

Yes, that's such an interesting point: the Japanese somehow managed to keep their strong gods through defeat, precisely because they were defeated. You might be interested in a book called 'Embracing Defeat', which elucidates a lot of this.

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Stuffysays's avatar

I wonder, though, whether the return of the strong gods isn't something that a disillusioned and miserable public are looking forward to. The political class has failed to give the population satisfaction - people don't really know what they desire do they? You see women with plastic faces and houses full of expensive tat yet you know they are on all sorts of medication, have unhappy marriages (or no partner at all), alienated and odd children and no real friends. Has the state fulfilled all their desires?

That God-shaped hole in society is something politics can't fill and the fulfilment of all your temporal and corporeal desires doesn't hit the spot. So maybe the devil will have his work cut out to keep the population wanting more tat. Just needs a Messiah-like figure to appear!!

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Ralph McHugh's avatar

I’ve recently been listening to Carlyle’s Heroes and Hero worship (free on audible). What’s relevant is the tone of Carlyle and the presumed sensibilities of his readers. He is sure about what he says, he has a deep rooted sense of what is right even though the subjects may be steeped in myth and mystery. This surety about the true, the good and the beautiful is what has been eroded by our hedonistic culture. Strong Gods impart their power to us and ground us in a sense of righteous being that can ignore the temporal shifts in the latest hedonisms.

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David McGrogan's avatar

I love Carlyle - although his book on the French Revolution has defeated me twice. One day I’ll get to learn what happens to Robespierre…..

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Hugh Willbourn's avatar

Beelzebub's representative on Earth is, and has been for some decades, Tony Blair. He has done his Master's bidding most effectively. We are in for a long, long fight if we wish to overturn his works.

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